the lack of female support in the games with quotes
from others as well as maybe a few more thought
A female Fan had this to say below:
"The WWE wrestling game, be it SVR or the latest WWE'12, is the only
legitimate option we have in the United States in terms of a mainstream,
across-all-consoles, wrestling game. We do not have the luxury of having other
options, and the times we did, the "competition" (being TNA Impact and
Lucha Libre AAA: Heroes del Ring) wasn't much of a competition in terms of
female/women's/diva wrestling. By default, wrestling games tend to ignore their
women's divisions of the respective company they're representing, and I'm very
grateful for the developers of current and past WWE games to allow themselves to
put their time and development into the "Divas" division of their wrestling games.
Though I will say that if "WWE All Stars" actually had divas in the game, I would
have probably purchased it by now, instead of currently waiting for that assumed price drop.
Restrictions personally do not bother me to much, and while I am a fan of inter-gender
match-ups, not having the option to face opponents of the opposite gender isn't necessarily
a deal-breaker for me, but I as a player do understand the importance of having this option
in the game. Now for me personally I have to say I care more for the creation aspects of an SVR/WWE game, more so than the actual game-play elements. New submission system? Cool. New grapple-breaking engine? Awesome. Bringing back camera angle/action shots in simulated CPU vs CPU matches? Please, I beg of you. I would personally love a better CAW/CAS mode for female wrestlers. Not being able to connect a straight line design from the chest area to the back area is aggravating, especially when trying to create bra-straps for a top. Not being able to wrap a design around the upper torso, and keeping it straight is also very aggravating (it tends to curve when wrapping onto the back, making it odd to create a top.) Would love more female hair options, a better selection of bra types, and a revamped face/body morphing selection.
While difficult to have/find a diva match online, it always has been, even before the restrictions were put into place. I would often have diva vs superstar matches online in SVR08, and hardly diva vs diva, since the majority of people playing the game do not necessarily give female wrestlers the same respect as male wrestlers. Sames goes for pretty much anything wrestling related, honestly. But as stated previously, SVR/WWE is our only option when it comes to female/diva/women's wrestling in a mainstream wrestling game, and while I understand the concerns of "beating up women," and the morals it may implement, people do have to understand that inter-gender match-ups aren't as "taboo" as they believe they are. They happen in the independent scene, the Japanese wrestling scene, pretty much everywhere but current-day WWE and TNA. In the past, inter-gender attacks in the WWE helped convey an emotional connection to the audience. Trish Stratus for instance, has often taken bumps from male wrestlers, even getting hit by finishing maneuvers. By doing so, it made the audience hate whomever did the maneuver, even despise them, which in turn made them care for the status of Trish Stratus for taking that bump, maybe even getting the respect of the audience. There was also an angle between Stacy Keibler, Test, and Scott Steiner, which resulted in Stacy taking bumps. Lita has also taken many bumps from male wrestlers, and even has done moves against male wrestlers. In my honest opinion, these inter-gender attacks helped make the audience care for the divas, even holding them on a higher pedestal than current-day WWE divas. Lita gets a lot of respect from the WWE audience, despite not being that technical of a wrestler. Trish gets a lot of respect from the WWE audience, when Natalya is a better wrestler than she is, and probably ever will be, again that's just my opinion.
Most recently, I had to make a female referee in CAW/CAS mode, because the referee in the game is recognized as "male superstar," and in order to convey the final scene in my CAW-Show, I needed a referee. If you could fix this in future games, where not-actual-wrestling talent, like a nameless referee isn't tagged as a certain gender in-game, it would make it a lot easier to create scenes in Story Designer using female wrestlers."
I personally do agree with this players post, I personally do respect people
like Lita and Trish way more then the Bella twins or god forbid someone like
Layla. Take me for example compared to someone like Layla I'm Andre the giant.
she is like what? 5'2"- 5'3" where I'm 6'0" I'm fit and athletic, I'm interested in Kick boxing and have done some (not professionally) I do stuff from a position of strength and power, I love submissions and I'm a fighter. and I put this all into my CAW/CAS becasue its biased off me personally. and if I were to become a WWE Diva from what I can see the only threat to me would probably be Beth Phoenix.
I'm not going to sweat the small stuff (Layla lol) so for actual competition I want to fight the men I want to fight Undertaker and HHH on the game not EvE and Kelly Kelly.
Lets take Tough Enough for a good example the only reason I watched
the new series with Stone Cold was 1. There was women doing it
in the ring with the men fighting it out. 2. because Trish on it.
it goes back to that respect, I respect Trish as a competitor.
I'm not a "Diva" and don't like referring to myself as one
because I am a fighter, I am a Wrestler and I am a Female Competitor!
people treat Wrestling like its bad, No truer words have been
spoken then the ones in the videos below:
(I know using TNA videos in a WWE Argument but they make my point)
I agree with what they say I'm all about putting fist to face
and foot to ass! and the way that SVR & soon to be WWE12 are going
I'm hindered in doing what I love.
Also as we go back to the respect angle yes it is alot about that
as a female player, when I fist started playing online It wasn't
easy, it was brimming with hate from the Male players becasue
I was female and in the first few months I had to play harder,
faster and smarter then my male counterparts to earn their
respect. I fought top players on the PSN and won earning
their respect and was even invited to join groups
becasue they valued my skill, strength and aggression.
But that all seem like a waist now, due to the idiocity and
assholery of The Gender Restrictions.
Another players comments about how WWE has ruined the
female division by running it into the ground and
also about the awesomeness of Games that Gender Restrictions
FREE as well as how Amazing inter-gender tag teams and play can be:
"The main problem is that WWE doesn't give them the time to shine, nor the
storylines/feuds so they can shine as much as previous women in early years.
So they mostly end up running up to the ring, rush through 2-3 moves and clear the ring so the audience can watch the same old advertisements of what happened between superstars in a other show for like 10 minutes, then a Michael Cole or other stupid segment get shoved down their throats additionally to other things.
Also, games, like No Mercy and Fire Pro Wrestling allows women and men to go for any title, including tagging together for the Tag Team Championship. In the wrestling world outside WWE, there are men and women tagging together to win whatever tag team championships are available. Some promotions even went as far as to create inter-gender tag team championships just for the cause. Just look for a Sara del Rey & Chris Hero match and you'll see just how good it can be."
I totally agree with what this person says, about the WWE and The games
and more especially the games. Like I said in the original post
(How they ruined Smackdow VS Raw) my guy and I were an amazing team
offline when playing with friends on SVR09 or previous.. The same goes with
online and my online male friends when I tagged with one of them we totally rocked!!
But ever since the introduction of the Gender Restrictions in SVR10
this has stopped I hardly play with any male friends anymore and that
hurts me greatly!! and who did this? WWE did!! they took this away
from me and away from all the other female players who enjoyed playing
with the Guys in there life.
WWE doesn't care about the female fans and I don't believe THQ
does either. In the WWE 12 - Gameplay Q&A #5 (below)
That ass Cory Ledesma says at the slider position of 5:15
"If its not broke don't fix it!"
Well you are fixing stuff that wasn't broken to begin with!
becasue you seem to be doing a good job of "Fixing" the Divas
and then he goes on to say at 5:25:
"We want to make sure were not stripping away features the fans
really like and make sure the best parts of the game are still in"
Yeah..sure.. you don't want to strip away stuff unless its Diva
related right Cory?
and then finally around 7:26 - 7:34 on the slider he says
"We fight for the community and get the features they want in it"
Which I and many people believe that is a load of BULLSHIT!
You don't fight for me..? I'm fighting for myself as well
as all the other female players that lost features that
they loved and enjoyed. Or is it that you only fight
male players? or the people who totally kiss your
and THQ collective ass?
Now alot of Male plays constantly tell me
"Mixed Tags are good enough for the Divas they don't
need anything else"
Now the people who say that clearly never did
a Mix Tag match and if they did they are having a
completely different experience then I am..
A friend of mine and I have had well over 100 Mix Tag matches. every match is a maximum of 3mins or less (this is not including entrances this is actual in match time bell has rung match has begun) why 3mins? simple! The Gender Restrictions!!!
either I get hit or the opposing Diva feels the need to jump in and get hit on purpose.
true sometimes there are accidents but mostly not. out of the over hundred matches my friend and I probably only played 4 where there was no shenanigans and out of those 4 full matches we won 2. we should get a PSN trophy for the most matches in the shortest amount of time.
at times the opposing Superstar has run from the up left corner in a stright line stright passed my Superstar partner and speared me off the apron. Trigering the match to end due
to DQ as per the "rules" set forth by the Gender Restrictions.
Yes that was an actual match I was in....
There have been times when the opposing Superstar had my Male partner on the other side of the ring and would leave him on the mat and claimly walk across the ring and punch me. triggering the DQ. WTF?!? can I do anything about this? No I have to make a whole new match!!!
That Ridiculousness wouldn't fly on SVR09 and if I had the ability to turn off the DQ on SVR11 in Mix Tags after he would hit me I would get up get in the ring and kick his ass!
and if his female partner tried to stop me I would kick her ass just for good measure!!!
but no! THQ/WWE took way my ability to get retribution! The tag line for SVR11 is
"This is Your Moment" Um..Excuse me, THQ? you seem to have removed my ability to create "Moments" um can I have it back please? it would be nice if I could do that like everyone else.
For a video game that purports to give the player ultimate control over their creations and the in game Universe it does a terrible job of it especially when it comes to female characters. Like I said Women created or otherwise should be able to compete in any match type no matter what it is and should be able to compete against
whoever the player chooses, be it another Diva or a Superstar/Created Character or other wise.
Here is the Single greatest example of how Mix Tags are when you play online or in general.
A male Player said this to me:
"I agree with this 110%. I made a, Lita CAW on SvR '10, but realized what was the point in that? I couldn't have her get her revenge on, Cryme Tyme in create a story. besides a fatal four way with, Lita vs Trish Stratus vs Natalya vs Mickie James there was really no point in creating her, If I can't have her fight who I want."
I fully agree with what he said.
also Mixed Tags are used in Ranked matches mainly by cheaters for stats boosting
Noob/Cheater will make a Mixed Tag just so they can pick a Diva and run into
the ring and get hit on purpose so they can pick up an easy win.
So you see THQ making it were "hitting a girl" is a DQ-able offense actually
backfired where people are getting suckered into this and now they have a DQ
penalty on them that is taking away their points at the end of the match
which is making them not very happy.. yeah great system you have in place there
THQ absolutely brilliant!
More complaints From Female Players:
"Thq's excuse as to not putting our match (6 Diva Tag) in the game, and blaming it on polygons no less. While that may be a good answer, its not for me. So maybe their are some tech hurdles and issues they have their and they may be seriously telling us the truth. Here's my problem and why i think that excuse is a bunch of BS personified.
For one they say that they hear us right? they understand why us diva fans are complaining and they promise justice will be served. Its been 2 going on 3 years now since we been complaining about that match going back in since they took it out. WWE 12 is around the corner and they have done exactly nothing since they said that. You guys can defend that statement on your tech hurdles and even say "their focus is core gameplay this year" ok that's some good bull shit i wont buy any of it but that's good bull shit.... explain why we didn't have this last year in 2011? And then whatever you have to say as to why we didn't have last year disregarding people glitching the match online explain why we didn't have it in 2010. There's my problem, we have to wait till WWE 13, Raw 13, wrestling 101, 2013 or whatever the hell they wanna call it next year, and then again its not promised next year, and the way Corey was talking about it he didn't seem to interested on working on it either.
Here's the thing,and to why i wont buy or listen to their excuses, its a simple fact that i would never complain for a feature or match type that's never been in the game before, if we never had this then yes i would still complain about them getting it in the game but i wouldn't stress it or make a big deal i would just say its another THQ fail to give us the game we want. but since it has been in the game before, for whatever reason they took it out why is it so hard to put back in. You can't say its slow cause all the games are slow my 2011 character select is slow and the menus following it, not to mention online glitchers who made the match seemed to work just fine. you say its tech hurdles but a glitcher just glitched your crap and made it happen yet THQ can't yeah that's reasonable. also guys can do these matches just fine even though they have their beards and some of them have long hair HBK,Taker,Morrison,etc
I can't buy in to the tech excuse because I don't see why their playing it off. Now i understand it is a guys game so of course superstars will get the most attention to satisfy the guy audience, i don't care if they get more stuff than the diva's i'm not complaining about them having more features. they clearly show that their putting more effort into other things but they can't give one diva match the same amount of attention they do to other modes and features. its been 2 going on 3 years now, whats the hold up on diva matches cause now its looking to be 4 years now since we won't get it this year again. they should have had any bug or tech hurdle issues fixed by now. if a minor issue like that came up in the other match ups i bet they get fixed before next years game, they say this year they fixed online stuff....congrats good job on that, you fix that the next year you see people angry about it, yet you ignore your diva fans... that's fair."
They have a point I do agree with them and they go on to say:
"I won't buy in any excuse they give me because of that, theirs no excuse, at this point i really want to know whats the real reason cause this is just something i gotta know. If i was that nerd corey here is how i would go about it. I see i have to focus on this and that and yeah people been complaining about this. I see my male audience wants certain stuff, showing favortism is ok if you get both audiences satsified (diva's should be prioty since we been complaining for 2 years going on 3) i would show both sides equal amount of my time and seeing how the guys get what they want and divas don't.. shows you what they think. They have the time to perfect ortons beard yet they can't give us a match and we get the exact same crap from last year on top of that, thats just awsome makes me jump for joy -_- " (note the sarcasm)
Once again I fully agree and so does this person below:
"Their is no excuse at all, just as Ashley said. I can believe that cause clearly they don't care even though its supposed to be "our time now" "our universe" they need to stop saying that cause its not our time now "its THQ'S time now" when you completely ignore an audience for over 3 years you know they just messed up. they can fix every other bug and all that yet they seem to can't get this one match that they did before, doesn't make sense to me at all.
I loved the game so much, its not cause of gameplay i could really careless, they can bring back 2006 gameplay and wouldnt hurt me one bit. I loved the game strictly for CAWS and creation. however if the diva's weren't in the game i wouldnt get it, i wouldnt rent it, it would be pointless. Yes i play with the guys too just so you know but i favor the divas of course and play with them the most, all my caws are diva's except for 1 male and that male is made for achievements only and thats it. No diva's means no diva caws which mean they take away my reason of buying the game. When the game first comes out and i would do it every year, i edit my roster and make sure everything right,clean or dirty,etc and then caw creation, i have them all on paper in alphabhetical order, dirty or clean and their brand so i make them all at once then i give them movesets as well as fix the existing superstars/diva's move sets then i do entrances and exisiting superstars and divas too. then i go into playing the game, so i spend a week creating. Even though there is alot of negitives I try to enjoy the game every year, but let me tell you this issue on six diva's tag better see some light cause pretty soon i might just stick to my other games and leave the wrestling on tv, cause clearly i dont need to keep playing something where the developers dont care about a certain part of their fans.
Ive seen other company's making bad decisions before, Microsoft completely failed their E3 show case, the only good thing they showed was gears 3 and that's it. they spend literally almost an hour talking about Kinect, when you talking about making bad decisions, this defines it, they have it where if you want to go to Disney land ... Kinect. you wanna see Elmo and all the little kids and Disney stuff your Xbox supports that now...you gotta be kidding me. another company Square Enix in my mind the best company ever (since i love rpgs) even i admit they been messing up lately, they failed in so much stuff. so why do i continue to support 360 even though i have a ps3, they have other stuff that keeps me interested in their stuff, Square Enix been messing up but I'm still with them cause they have other things such as FFXIII -2 keeps me interested and it has what i want. THQ is making a bad decisions with their diva fans, something or somebody needs to get handled soon cause right now creation is the only thing that's keeping me their, put that six diva match in their and i'm satisfied.
So ask yourself, really do they really have a good excuse to be ignoring something this big which is driving people away from their stuff, which will drop them in sales....really just think about it and tell me I'm wrong for not buying that polygon crap."
And the debate continues with others saying:
"Ive heard both sides and i have to agree with what raekon is saying after all us and double h both came up with it together. its true their could be some other reason with the tech stuff this year, but as I said doesn't explain why last year and the year before that. They promise we will get this and do nothing at all the following year and now they give us the same crap this year.
They shouldn't keep asking us for what we want in the game if their not going to deliver.
Ive heard their crap for 3 years now and i see that their is no explanation as to why? look at everything we talked about, theirs no possible excuse at all. people hack their system and bypass their supposed crap that they call tech hurdles and such yet they can't do it but hackers can.
You want evidence its staring you in the face, THQ favors other stuff which i don't blame them but they could at least show equal time for the divas as well. They don't care about the divas, they don't care about their diva fans regardless how much Corey says he hears us. They care more about getting beards in most peoples words, I think they care more about their stupid belt sizes and caw limits than anything else. They give us a feature for create modes just so we can keep buying their product. You guy's are blind if you can't understand whats being shown in front of you.
I brought up 2011 and 2010 to state my case that they have been telling us they would fix for those years, 2010 showed nothing they said, 2011 we got nothing again. we should be looking at the future which is WWE 12? your right I'm looking at the future and seeing how we still get nothing again this year that future is looking kind dull and repeated time again and again.
Once again tech issues, that's all everybody says is tech issues, whats so different about their tech issues that they haven't fixed yet huh? whatever tech issues they have for 6 man tag match where fixed right away, online glitching they fixed that right up, they fix up everything else except something that involves a diva, conspiracy against their diva fans, I'm not just blaming THQ I'm blaming WWE they favor other modes and fancy beards...hell i care more about john Morrison's than Orton's and i don't see anybody talking about that. They can keep saying tech issues but the guys have equal features like the diva's yet its not a problem or it gets fixed yet 3 years on our match and they still come up with lame excuses."
So there you have it people are upset, people are angry, people are let down and feel as though
the people in charge don't give a damn about that and I am one of those people..
Think the games are awesome? think they're great?
I and many other people are being held back due to our gender
being held back because of bureaucracy
being held back to "protect us"
being held back for our own good
being held back becasue of "false" technical issues.
being held back due to old outdated ideas
being held back becasue we aren't considerd important
In short I and many others are just simply being held back..
I am being held back from enjoying a product the way I want to as it is keeping
me from my friends.from enjoying it the way as everyone else does.
The game has to return to being made with fairness on both sides. You shouldn't put all the
efforts in to just one side of the game It has to be done equally the male characters would get just as much development and attention as the female characters. there would not be a special set of rules governing one side and not the other, there should be no limitations placed on one side and not the other.
If the men can take part in any listed match type being it ladder, extreme, Hell in a Cell or 6 Man tag, then it would be only fair that the women could do that as well.. women would be allowed to take part in any and all listed match type being it ladder, extreme, Hell in a Cell or 6 Man tag. Fair and equal on both sides. Also it should be brought back to were it would support Gender Neutral game play female and male characters can compete against each other in any listed match be it online or offline. The goal of this should be you would want people to play together and have fun and interesting match-up regardless of the gender of the player and their character.
For those who believe that Gender Neutral game play is a morally reprehensible issue then they would have the ability to turn this feature off, Also by turning this feature off you will be prompted for a password. Once password is in place the ability to take part in the male vs female match types will be disabled. Because of course we have to think of the children http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThinkOfTheChildren
or instead of turning off the feature and being prompted for a Password the
game ships with the feature already locked and in the case you get a DLC style card
with a password on it that turns off the Gender Restrictions and gives you that
3rd "anyone" option.People who don't want to use it don't have to, and they can
continue play the way they want to and everyone is happy.
Or still yet again, game ships with the feature already locked
and you have to go on PS Store and purchase an update for say
$3.99-5.99 that will unlock it and turns off the Gender Restrictions
and gives you that 3rd "anyone" option.
People who don't want to use it don't have to, and they can
continue play the way they want to and everyone is happy.
there is many things you could do, with out really changing anything..
But in the End fairness, equality and fun should be a main priority.