Tuesday, October 5, 2010

How they ruined Smackdown VS. Raw

Around mid April of 2010 after playing Smackdown VS. Raw 2010 and
being displeased by by the "New and Exciting changes"  they had made to the game series
I decided to wright to THQ and tell them what I thought of the game. I had posted it on
a few sites but I think this will be its permanent home so below is the actual letter
I sent them.

To Whom it may concern.

You want feed back I have some for you!
Now first off I love this series I have been playing
it since  Smackdown2: Know Your Role on PSone  and
second I am a female player so naturally my created
superstar is a woman. Now I have been using the same
character since the beginning I have recreated her
every year she went through a change here and there
be it costume, moves, hair, ect. and have had many
fun and exciting matches and games over the passed 10
years with my friends and others.
 Now the problem I'm writing you about puts an end to
all the fun and enjoyment because you totally screwed
up SVR2010! Now how exactly how did you screw it up?
well let me ask you this how am I suppose to play
with my male friends both online and off if you turn
off the girls VS. boys?  How am I suppose to fight
them if I can only have matches against other girl
For example If you are the only girl in a room of
like 4-5 guys they aren't going to be all girls in a match
and I don't want to always play as a guy.  It was better in SVR09
when which I'm still playing cause I can play with my
friends online and off because I have like 7 online
female friends and over 40+ male ones and do you think
all the guys are going to play as girls in 2010? I
don't think so. 
Now you might be thinking "Why doesn't she just play
as a male character in 2010" or "why not just do
Mixed Tag matches in 2010?"  well first off I do use
male friend's character from time to time but if I'm
just going to use a guy character then that defeats
the purpose of having my own. On the back of the
SvR2010 case it says and I quote:
"It's your world now"
it does not say "It's your world now,but only if your
a guy" and second  I have been doing mixed tags far
before your Brilliant Idea (and I do use the term
loosely) of including the mix tag option and you
even screwed that up by your instant and automatic
DQ.  If a person of the opposite gender (a guy) strikes the
other (a girl) the match is stopped and a DQ is declared
who thought this was a good idea?  Now I know that is
the way it is on WWE programing boys fight the boys
and girls fight the girls and I'm all for the realism
of the game but then again it is just a game if you
want to do stuff like that keep it confined to the
Story/Road to Wrestlemaina Mode.
 In career mode as well as VS./Exhibition and as well as
online play. I want to fight whoever I want in whatever
match I want!!  If I want my female character to face down
the Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell I want the option
to do so. 
If I want my female character to face Batista in a
Steel Cage I want the option to do so!!
as well as TLC,Ladder Matches and King(or maybe
Queen)of the Ring. 
 I want my female character to be able to do anything
the guys can and fight the guys while doing it!  If
you are going to do a SvR 2011 you should make
everything above possible for the best game experience.
I'd say your best series innovation: Custom Music
second best would have to be the ability to display
custom entrances online(2010).
your worst Idea: Making it impossible for Divas to
fight Superstars. No boys VS. girls makes me sad :(
Second worse: The stamina system I hated it ever
since it was introduced and we always turn it off anyway.
 Also the reversal system in 2010 is near impossable. 
True a one button reversal is a great idea...If it worked!
I find the 2 button one in 09 works better then the
one button in 2010.
 So basically that's it you screwed it up and made it
less fun then it was before. Everything else is 2010
is pretty good now if you can combine 09 & 2010 and
add the "girls created or otherwise can do anything
the boys can do and fight the guys while doing it" It
will be probably the best of the series.
until then I'm going back to playing 2009.
 Now I sent that off to THQ  in hopes that they would listen.  I received an
automated response saying that they were going to forward it to the right people.
and I left it at that.

The the announcement came that there would be a 2011 and I was excited
I though maybe they fixed the gender thing by taking it out  so I did have
high hopes. among all the excitement about the new physics and how stuff
looked and all that,  but what I wanted to know is did they take what I wanted
into consideration? and the answer was "NO"   because after hearing from THQ
I was told that in 2011 Diva's will once again not be able to  wrestle against the guys.
with a broken heart I asked "why?"   and I was told  "Because that is how
WWE wants it"   THQ  goes on to say that they have no decision making power
in this matter and that I will have to complain to WWE itself.

So I say fine I'll  take my complaint to the WWE itself becasue I
complained to THQ at first being that they are the ones that published the game
and True I know WWE has some say in
what goes in but still it was a THQ product.

During all this I was chatting with a friend online about this whole thing
I was joking around with him on PSN about this I was all " Wrestling is a
Male dominated thing and I'm a girl so what do I know about wrestling,right?"
(I was being sarcastic and implying i know nothing) he sent me a message back
saying "LOL, you and I both know that's BS!"

So I take my complaint to WWE and try to contact some who I can
bring up this issue and when I did get to speak to someone they seemed
disinterested in what I had to say but told me that they would get back to
me and they never did.

Now you might be wondering why this is important well
 you know I just want people to understand that it feels like I'm getting the
short end of the stick here like I said I started playing on Smackdown2 for the
PS1 and went through ever game right up to 09 on PS3 and it was great and then
2010 came along and changed all.  It it just feels like I had something
(in this case the ability to fight the guys) and someone just came along and took
it away from me with out being able to say anything about it almost like it was stolen
you know that feeling. that is what has gotten me so upset about the whole thing and
ruined the enjoyment of the game.
sure i can still play it but I feel I can't play it to its fullest and really enjoy
it as much as I did.

Digital Audience
36% of our audience is female

Television Audience
35% of our viewers are female 
(statistics taken from http://corporate.wwe.com/company/overview.jsp)
(these were the stats at the time of typing this)

I guess that 36&35% which I am a part of doesn't really matter after all.
being that I feel in a way that I'm being discriminated against because I
am a Female.

Also this is something easy to fix!  in the section where you create a match
(for online for example)  it says either Superstars or Divas  all you have
to do is add in a 3rd option of Anyone or Anybody or Everyone it doesn't
matter and have it be Superstars or Divas or Everyone.  That way if people
want only Superstars then they can have it, if they just want Divas then they can
have that or if they want to really open it up and really have fun like I do they can
select the 3rd option.  You might be wondering how will you get that passed people
who will complain?  DON'T TELL ANYONE! I know that would be hard to do but
you could also slip it in at the last minute it doesn't really matter.

Also what is being achieving from taking this feature out? Other then pissing off
alot of female players of the series. Alot of people have said
it has alot to do with woman's rights activist or spousal abuse reps.
which I think is rather stupid becasue
1. I don't condone violence towards women "in real life" like where
you hear about some guy stabling his girlfriend on the news that's not cool.
but on the other side of it were talking about stuff that isn't real.
Now I'm a big girl and can take care of myself. I was raised to be a
strong, confident,assertive and somewhat aggressive woman who is not
afraid to fight. Not afraid to break a nail or get my pants dirty. I don't need
some watchdog group to swoop in and protect me and tell me what
is or isn't suitable in my life and trying to shield me from
"all the bad things cause I'm some helpless lil girl" screw that!
like I said I can take care of myself and if I need help my guy has
my back. Now also I understand the whole things about sponsors and
what not but still I think I'm repressed and discriminated against becasue
of my gender.
Now If a guy is sick and simply wants to beat up women for no
reason that's HIS problem. He will find a way to do sick things otherwise!
I for one want to  boot up a game,Play as my character and have a knockdown
drag out fight with the Undertaker, why?  becasue that is fun
what would you rather do have a knock down drag out fight
3 stages of hell or Hell in a Cell with the Undertaker or
a singles match with Beth Phoenix for the 15th million time...

Also I don't know if anyone else knows this but the majority of the female
players I talked to would play as a Tag Team and enjoy doing Tornado Tags
with their husbands/boyfriends or other male person they knew be it brother/
cousin/friend and ever since the Diva restrictions starting in SVR2010
they didn't want to play becasue they can't play the same as they did in 09
Also plenty of people refer to the No Diva VS. Superstar restriction as being ridiculous.

Even Male players I have talked to did not like this change ones such player
said this and I quote:

"I can see how it ruins it for girls. My wife loved playing 2009 with me and 
it was a good time bonding together... she would not play 2010 with
me for the same reasons. She doesn't want to play as a guy character... and 

she doesn't like having to fight only girl characters. She wants to be able 
to fight me, against my male character."  

I would have to agree with him. In one of the "Stand Up for the WWE"
videos the person says:
"We (the WWE) produce a product that makes people
laugh and smile, we bring family's together" 

well I'm not laughing or smiling about this and it isn't bringing
my "family" together much like the male player above I'm in the same
situation.  Like I said in the letter above  in 09 (and previous) My
boyfriend and I had great fun but as of 2010 we no longer play
this together he plays by his self and I play by myself : (
so honestly where is the fun in that?
You broke up our team and many other teams.  You can have
all the flashy physics and have tables break a million different ways
but all that doesn't matter if you can't play with the people who
(video in question is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56eZS7rv5_k
the quote is from the bearded man at 1:14 on the slider)

Also this video states there are 6 Million Female viewers in the
US alone!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5quZdqiUTk
I'm from Canada so you probably have another few Million here
and this Female Fan is pissed off!!

Another male player said this and I quote:
"Honestly what they could have done is just not have the restriction
and let inter-gender matches be the choice of the player. This is like
when MAAD tried to shut down GTA4 because you could drink and drive in
the game. No ones telling you to drink and drive, but if they choose to
do it, let them do it (in-game, mind you). Same with the matches."

Same with matches, SVR is not telling you to go beat up women

but if a Superstar want to fight a Diva (or in my case Diva vs. Superstar)
they should be allowed to do it.

In a video interview one of the development team (Brian Williams, I believe) said
"2011 is dedicated to the fans and what they want"  Well I'm a fan and you're not doing
me any favors! 

WWE is all about "Empowering Women"  I don't feel empowered I feel
hindered in my enjoyment of the product and I feel that this is segregation biased
on my gender and I feel discriminated against. To me this is like if someone creating
a character who is of darker skin (such as African American) and they tried
to play and were forced to only play against other characters of the same
skin tone (such as Ezekiel Jackson, Mark Henry, R-Truth for example) 
that wouldn't be fun for them and not very fair.  I know people will say
that it is not the same thing but it is.
Discrimination and Segregation is not limited to one group of people, it does
do not care about Religion, Political standing, Race or Gender.

Sex segregation is the separation of people according to their gender.
The pejorative term gender apartheid (or sexual apartheid) has been applied
to segregation of people by gender,implying that it is sexual discrimination.
In some circumstances, gender segregation is a controversial policy, with critics
contending that in most or all circumstances it is a violation of human rights.

Vince Mcmahon is on wwe.com and youtube telling people to stand up for
themselves and that is what I'm doing I'm standing up for myself and every
other female player.

In closing I'll leave you with another quote from another female player I was
speaking with:
"what it's all really about is people who think one gender should have one place
in society and another gender should have another. i hate that with a passion. it's
so prejudiced and limiting. everybody should be able to enjoy a game in the same way
as anybody else with no stupid offensive restrictions... so, yeah.
it's good to know that other people out there still are pissed off at this, and I'm
not the only one left. thanks for expressing your view! people need to hear that sort
of stuff more."

But anyway that is it.I hope you liked reading this and agree with me
on at least some level. but thanks for taking the time to read anyway.

PS:  Here are some more quotes from other players

Tom Clark Correspondent for The Bleacher Report:

"Thanks for the link, Shannon. I appreciate your point of view. Having been in the business myself, I can tell you, from my point of view, that I consider women in the ring along the same lines as the men. Makes no difference to me how sexy they look, whether they're fat, thin, blonde, brunette, black, white, asian, whatever, if they can go, that's all that matters to me. I personally don't watch women's wrestling hoping to see a "wardrobe malfunction", I'm not interested in that. I am a wrestling fan, and if a woman can work, then she has a right to be in the ring, the same as any man out there. Thanks again for your perspective, and btw, I'm still sitting here with a PS2 and have yet to evolve to the next level. I have all the Smackdown vs RAW, all the way back to the beginning myself, and have always loved the series. Perhaps WWE's point is that they don't want to encourage violence against women? Of course, that is ridiculous, considering how many times The Dudleys put women through tables several years ago. Truly hippocritical on their part."

A Male player I spoke to said this:
think It should be back... that's why videogames aren't progressing to become intergender they are limitating women.... If gaming wants to get to another level they should kill the belief that only men play videogames or that women only play Dancing, singing, Roll play dating, cooking and so on....If you don't want to wrestle against a Diva on the game just don't do it just change the oponent....If you don't want to do it online just leave the room and let her know that you don't want to wrestle her.
A Female Player of the series had this to say

The option needs to be in the game. Remember people, it is a game. The option should be there so the player can have what ever experience they want. And you close minded people need to realize that. Making video games exactly REAL takes out the fun of playing a game. And for real wrestling fans like me, it's not about man on women violence. It's about wrestling and competition. There are plenty of other wrestling leagues out there that have men and women wrestle each other and ignore the gender factor. The problem is most of you people only know women wrestlers as divas. And those are the most feeble and worst wrestlers. There are plenty of women wrestlers out there that can hang with the guys. Shoot, ALL of the Shimmer ladies can wrestle better then that loser the Miz. I know that I want to use women and beat up the poor wrestling guys.

If you people want REAL so much. Then no weapon shots to the head. No big guys ever take a long fall. No crazy air and TB CaF. Don't like that, do ya? See, a video game needs a little bit of unreal.
And Finally another Male player had this to say:

I want it returned not cause i like to hit women cause i don't. I want it back to have memorable again matches like how Chyna won the WWE Championship, When Kane destroyed Trish, When the Dudleys boyz put girls threw tables, When Beth Pheonix annihilated Santino, etc. its not an abusive thing and besides what about these "equal rights?" If a woman is going to claim to be a wrestler she should be prepared to actually wrestle. Besides i wouldn't mind powerbombing annoying "divas" like Melina, Maryse, etc. through a table or two am i right? I mean you yourself aren't actually doing this its just a game regardless of how so called "realistic" it is. It will not be you it will be character who is based off you just not really you. If you have high morals fine don't wrestle the Divas but don't look down on us for wanting to shut the mouths of the snobby, uppity, annoying wenches. Just let us have our Diva beat downs and stop being cowards about it and be afraid of oh what will the parents think. Oh I don't approve of men hitting women, oh this game promotes violence towards women. No it wont promote anything if the guy is an abusive a-hole guess what he'll always be an abusive a-hole a game is not got to make him do anything he hasn't done or thought of before. Let me have ultimate control as they so blandly through out since the last 3 games which i feel like i didn't truly get to do and let me make the Bella's tap out or KO Mickie James.

And now the greedy reason I want it back, My female friend is uberly sexiest and will not make a male wrestler so we cant wrestle in the game as out male Caws against her because of this. So we have to use Divas with our movelist and its just not the same in the slightest.
 So there you have it people what this back, so what are you going to do about it?
if the Divas VS. Superstars is not reinstated in Smackdown VS Raw 2012 then its
not coming into my house, I'm done, I'm finished.
I'll find some other game to play.


  1. I am seriously waiting for a PC Version too... Kindly add my Query too..


  2. I am glad to see that I am not alone, neither are you some of the weird sickos who like Diva availability matches simply for their sick, twisted fantasies.

    But the problem lies with those aforementioned sickos. I like how you have statistics and evidence to prove your points, unfortunately...
    Do you know how long it took for me to find this post among the many others who talk about other players creating divas and beating them up with their superstars for reasons only nasty people can understand?

    I am also a huge advocate of giving more choices and freedom for divas in the games (I would also like them to bleed but that's a story for another time).

    Anyway, the point behind this comment is that there are too few of us who play for intentions other than masturbating. Either way, I am really hoping THQ, Yukes, and the WWE hears this plea and that other people - women more specifically - support this. Just so you know, you have mine, as a fellow female player.

  3. thank you to those who read and support this blog posting. It means alot to me.

  4. i totally agree with you. they totally screwed both svr 2010 and 2011. it sucks.

  5. I would also like diva to bleed. bring chyna back as legend charecter.

  6. I agree with all that you've said, but I'd like to add something, not for you to lose hope but to help you come up with a better counter argument.

    Firstly, GTA series is rated M, WWE SDvsR/'12 series is rated T. THQ/WWE would prefer to keep their series T. That means that 13-year-olds are playing this game and everyone knows that there is the risk of 'some' kids allowing their minds to be poisoned by everything they encounter in life without thought. This means that those kids would feel a bit more 'comfortable' to hit women as they grow older, and that's the simple reality of this world. There are people like that.

    That's why there aren't anymore Chyna, Molly Holly, Luna Vachon, etc. WWE is now a PG programme and so their products have to reflect that, even if it means disappointing fans like me and you.

    They had a solution before in Smackdown!2 with the option to set the gender of the character, which would only affect what match-types the character can participate in, nothing else. Why remove that solution? I think it's because the 'kids' can easily do it.

    I can come up with ways to make that solution more complex to allow for only adults to play as a neutral-gender character....but, it doesn't stop the possibility for an adult to give the controller to a kid after doing the process.

    The last possible solution to solve everyone's problems? Give the game an M-rating.

    That's it.

    Btw, my personal take on the features would be:
    1. Allow female-looking superstars to access all of the same features a male superstar would have in the game. That includes creation items, move-sets, match-types etc.
    2. Keep the blood out of women. I'm fine with that.

  7. Thank you for your comment Seiryuki but did you read the other posts? were I talk about the Rating system? it doesn't matter what it will be rated kids "13 and Under" will still play it. It could be rated M or T it doesn't matter.
    The games being rated T for Teen, like I said I missed the part where being 8 years old made you a Teen..
    As for the PG thing people seem to cling to the "if its not on WWE TV then its not in the game" Have you even watched WWE recently? When was the last time they actually had a "First Blood" Match? or for a matter of fact when was the last time you seen a Superstar take a chair shot to the Head, or been "Busted open" with the blood running down their face? But yet Beth Phoenix was in the 2010 Royal Rumble.. and yet Female Characters can't take part in the Rumble..?
    and people say if it doen't happen in the WWE it won't be in the games? If I'm not mistaken and of course correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Royal Rumble and Televised WWE event?

    They are doing stuff in the game that isn't on TV and yet things that are on TV aren't in the Game.
    Also I had plenty of Ideas about bring back the inter gender game play with out sacrificing its Family Friendly "PG" feel of the games which I outlined in other post and even sent to marcus stephenson who seem to really like them and said we would put them if if we could.

    1. the Gender Restrictions are the most stupid thing ever.
      To fix that they MUST release a patch for all versions for the all consoles(PS2,Xbox360,PS3,Wii, Pc), secret code, to disable that for my Svr 2011 PS2.
      I never was interested in buy SVr 2010 or play by that reason, in 2011 they tried to fix that allowing to use Divas in TLC,Inferno Match, Extreme Rules and others. But still no 6 man ,First Blood or Armageddon in a Cell.and STILL that was not enough.I hope they REMOVE the stupid gender restrictions in WWE 13.

  8. personally I would love to see chyna, trish ,lita ,ivory, jacquiline ,molly ,holly, sable torie Wilson ,debra,gail kim etc back in game.. the current divas suck. more over I would love to see Goldberg and brock lesnar back. beside there should be an option to create move set for the divas along with with attribute point. SVR 2010 and SVR 2011 sucks a lot. they should also add option to play with female superstar in season mode aur store mode what ever the hell it is . these female should be allowed to compete in all matches even against males superstar.

  9. Very late, but this is a pretty interesting topic.

    WWE can be hypocritical like that. Most of the PG-era matches on TV today made me turn away from watching it. Now they're basically saying that you can't use Divas in a match against Superstars in their games? I'm a guy, but using a Diva against a Superstar is more of a challenge, IMO. And when did they decide that guys vs. girls, or vice versa, would be promoting or condoning violence against women? Back in the days of No Mercy, a Diva could get busted open and bleed as much as a Superstar; nobody complained about that. NOW they want to call foul... At least then in No Mercy, Divas had a lot more choices in the matches they could compete in. SvR 2009 is the most recent game I have, and yet Divas could only compete in a small number of matches in that (gotta go back and see what type of restrictions there are). I think they need to go back to what made No Mercy one of the best games of its time and have a variety of matches that Divas can compete in. I'd like to see Divas be able to compete in Ladder matches, go at it in a 3 Stages of Hell match, be Queen of the King, or even bleed it up some in a First Blood match, not just see Divas face off against other Divas in a Singles match for the 47 millionth time.